Posts by Old Goat

11

Have you ever shunned anyone after leaving the borg ?

by Clambake in

this isnt particularly a jw question but if anyone knows the world of shunning it would be ex-jws.

i have a friend who about three years ago had an abortion and i havent been too friendly with since that happened.

i havent said anything or done anything rude to her.

Old Goat

Even before I resigned as an elder there were few disfellowshipped people I wasn't kind to. It's unchristian to be unkind. Period. But yes, there are some "out of the truth" I will not associate with. An example is my brother. He's a self-entitled abuser of women, a drunk and cruel. I see no reason to treat him nicely. Correctly, yes. As my best buddy. Never.

Sharing a rejection of the Watch Tower does not make me the friend of anyone with an abusive personality. Part of good judgment is to be selective in our associates. Being outside Watch Tower control, we can make our own choices. But being outside Watch Tower dictatorial and mindless control does not free us from the responsibility to make good choices in associates.

16

Russell v Russell: the 1908 court transcript

by Londo111 in

does anyone know how to obtain a copy?.

i have poked around pennsylvania websites, attempting to figure out how to obtain the transcript, but recently, i have it on good authority that the transcript went missing from the pennsylvania archives over 30 years ago.

it is likely that there is vested interest (jws, bible students) to keep this hidden..

Old Goat

Rachael de Vienne, one of the authors of A Separate Identity, a history of the watch tower's early days, has a copy. She and Schulz, the other author, quote from it in their book. It's hundreds of pages long. She's very busy and is currently writing a textbook on American Colonial History. You might contact her. I'm not posting her email in a public site. PM me for it if you want. Expect a fairly long delay before you hear back.

She lives across the river from me. Nice, smart, younger (compared to my ancient self) woman. I've read through long stretches of her copy of the transcript. It probably will not give you what you want, but it's still worth a read if she will share it. She and Dr. Schulz (a Witness, very infirm and not answering any emails these days) have written a hugely important book. And a biography of Nelson Barbour (lulu.com or amazon).

They put to rest many myths and give startling details not found elsewhere. A recent post here claiming to show the influences on Russell would have benefited from reference to chapter 4 of Separate Identity. Their work on volume 2 is in abeyance until the textbook project is finished.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html

15

rejection of your own founder?

by Mr.logic in

what kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence?

that's 53% of the time they existed!

any comments.

Old Goat

It is more and more difficult for the Watchtower to perpetuate its myths given newer, and more accurate histories such as this one:

http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html

This book is a treasure and so is the authors' blog:

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

The Russell story as the watch tower told it has always been mostly a myth. They know this.

29

Mark Sanderson Background and Warwick

by TakeOffTheCrown in

mark sanderson - here is some insight on his background taken from this site:.

http://e-watchman.com/congratulations-mark/.

congratulations, mark!.

Old Goat

"Frankly he doesn't look intelligent. I think we all can agree on that. He looks dopey."

What does intelligent look like? I think the MENSA Denver convention is on youtube. Tell me if we looked intelligent.

This post caught my attention through its mention of Melvin Sargent. He was one of the finest men I knew, open, kindly and sharing. The last time I saw him was in the mid- 1980s. Men of his sort are rare within the Witness fellowship.

17

When did the WTS begin to require baptismal candidates to answer 2 questions. What were they?

by AndersonsInfo in

i need some research done so if anybody has the time, please see what you can find on the subject as stated in the title.. i clearly remember attending my first circuit assembly.

on october 30, 1956, i definitely answered two questions, along with about ten other people including my mother, not at the assembly, but we were standing at the side of a small baptismal pool that was in the basement of a kingdom hall in ronkonkoma, then a small hamlet on long island in the town of islip, suffolk county, new york, united states.. i know for a certainty that in 1945 candidates for baptism were not asked any questions but they were informed through their congregation that there would be a baptism and told where and when it was to be held.

usually the baptism was done at a beach and when candidates showed up in bathing attire, they were dunked, no questions asked.. so sometime between 1945 and 1956 two specific questions began to be asked of candidates.

Old Goat

I was baptized in 1948. The questions as presented in the 1942 Watchtower, page 302, they were:

1. Do you believe in Jehovah God the Father, that “salvation belongeth unto Jehovah,” and that Christ Jesus is his Son in whose blood your sis are washed away and by whom salvation comes to you from God?

2. Have you therefore confessed your sins to God and asked for cleansing by Christ Jesus and therefore turned away from sin and the world, and consecrated yourself without reservation to God to do his will?

As I recall it, these were similar to the questions asked at my baptism in March 1948

18

How Soon Will We See 9-Year-Olds in Committee Meetings?

by TTATTelder in

that teddy bear baptism video was shocking.. if you haven't seen it yet.

check it out on this thread:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/271170002/on-subject-child-baptism-video.

Old Goat

Congregation committees have no business dealing with very young children. Most of the current crop of elders are failures as parents. Their children have run wild, 'left the truth,' and pursue a secular life. If they can't engage their own children, how will they regulate the children of others. This is wrong. How desperate for increase in numbers must they be.

There is nothing in the bible that allows an elder to step between a parent and his child. Watchtower elders assume authority beyond anything the scriptures allow.

16

Better Bible Translation?

by Sofia Lose in

which bible translation is the best, according to biblical scholars, anybody knows?

please chime in.. i plan on getting it and doing comparison with the new world translation.

sl.

Old Goat

I think the three volume Bible from 26 Translations is still in print. It's a good way to compare translations without buying them all.

5

Authors who are Active JWs?

by neat blue dog in

for starters, this topic isn't about former or non-practicing jws, but active ones who are authors.

we all probably have heard of mcmillan's faith on the march and the other one by marley cole, but how about more recently?.

i found a couple.

Old Goat

B. W. Schulz has written two history books, both about aspects of the Watch Tower's early days:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/nelson-barbour-the-millenniums-forgotten-prophet/paperback/product-5424152.html

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html

Schulz is elderly and infirm so marginally active, but still a Witness. He writes good, solid history and lets the chips fall where they may. I strongly recommend both books.

A British Witness named Whitby writes about bible translations. I don't have a link, and they're all magazine articles.

35

Where is Everyone????

by truthlover in

jw
friends

missing a lot of the oldies and goodies -- is this site so new, no one has signed on yet?

i am confused... but then, i will have to wait and see what happens.. somehow - change is not the best option but we adjust..have most of the users gone to other locations?.

tl.

Old Goat

I hate the new design. And I have constant log-on issues. This is hard to read and not user friendly.

76

From 1 to 10, how do you rate the value of the Internet in your awakening?

by Hidden-Window in

jw
friends

as we all know, the internet is a real game-changer in allowing us to know the truth about the watch tower and its history.

i always had doubts and it was the internet that presented me with the ever-growing number of individuals who were going through a similar struggle.. i give the internet a 9 in my awakening.

what about you?.

Old Goat

0. I started fading when the Internet was new. The behaviors of by so-called brothers killed my faith in the Watchtower. If you foster bad behavior; if you encourage it, then you're not God's organization.